What kind of splash will the Cubs make?
While Bad Kermit retreats to the pond or lily pad, or wherever it is that frogs go, I will help fill in for him at HJE! My name is T.J. Brown, and I post occasionally at my rarely-updated blog.
I wanted to introduce myself to you early enough because insanity could ensue this weekend, and I’ll be too busy bitching about Hendry sending Geovany Soto to Texas for Eric Gagne explaining to you how Koyie Hill to Cincinnati for Ken Griffey Jr. and David Weathers is Hendry’s best trade yet. Regardless, the trading deadline is only 13 days away, and players will change teams, or at least Phil Rogers and Peter Gammons will be busy saying they’re just about to.
The Cubs actually made a deal Monday, sending fan favorite Rob Bowen and minor leaguer Jerry Blevins to Oakland for former All-Star catcher Jason Kendall. I’m not saying Blevins is going to be the next Walter Johnson, but Billy Beane and Jim Hendry matching wits is the kind of mismatch you might expect when Harvard meets Oakton College in a Quiz Bowl. Kendall’s first day as a Cub was bad. Awful. Let’s hope this was the jet lag that we saw, and that Kendall won’t be mentioned in the same breath as Matt Karchner and Ernie Broglio. Let’s also hope that Hendry isn’t done. As impressive as the last four weeks have been, the greatest team since the 1927 Yankees does not play at 1060 W. Addison St. Hendry must be working the phones in between benders to all the local Dunkin Donuts, right?
That said, ol’ Donuts has been active this time of year ever since he’s been general manager, and he’s had mixed results. He really hasn’t done any worse than the guys who came before him, which is to say he hasn’t turned the Cubs into the 1899 Cleveland Spiders — although there is always time to try.
Let’s take a look at some midseason moves the Cubs made over the years. 
Let me warn you, this is a long post, so print it out and take it with you to read while riding the train or bus or while driving 75 MPH through the Dan Ryan Expressway construction zone.
July 27, 1945 – The Cubs purchase Hank Borowy from the New York Yankees for
$97,000.
The Yanks were 43-40 and four games behind first-place Detroit. They didn’t have Joe DiMaggio that year as he was saving the world from tyrants in World War II. (Note: Don’t you think a tour in Iraq would do wonders for Barry Bonds’ image?) The Cubs were 54-33, four games ahead of St. Louis, who was without Stan Musial and Enos Cabell. Yes, the Cubs were in danger of winning the pennant because all of their players were 4-F.
The $97,000 that it cost Phil Wrigley to get Borowy was about $1.08 million in 2006 dollars, so it was much less than what it cost the Cubs to send Michael Barrett away. Then again, if Hendry had sent $1.08 million to the Yankees this year for Borowy, we’d all be wondering why he would pay so much for a guy who’s been dead for three years.
Borowy went 11-2 for the Cubs, who went to the World Series. Borowy shut out the Tigers in Game 1, and then lost Game 5 to put the Cubs on the brink of elimination. He then pitched four shutout innings of relief as the Cubs won Game 6 in 12 innings before Charlie Grimm decided to start Borowy in Game 7. Borowy did not retire a batter in Game 7 and no one has started a World Series game for the Cubs since. Borowy went 25-32 over the next three seasons with the Cubs.
Verdict: Unless you believe guys who win two World Series games for the Cubs suck, this was about as good as it could get. Pitchers who have won two or more World Series games with the Cubs: Borowy, Lon Warneke, Mordecai Brown, Orval Overall, and Ed Reulbach. Two other pitchers have two or more postseason wins with the Cubs: Mark Prior and Kerry Wood.
May 2, 1946 — Cubs sign free agent Billy Jurges. The Cubs were 7-6 on the young season, two games out of first and flush with optimism that the postwar era would be an era dominated by the Cubs, day baseball, chewing gum and banjo-playing managers. They had trouble generating any offense out of the shortstop position, however, with regular Lennie Merullo coming off a .239/.297/.299 season. To make matters worse, Merullo booted 30 balls in 1945. How bad was that? Ronnie Cedeno made 23 errors in 2006 and Alex Gonzalez 10 in 2003 (and Merullo only played 118 games at short in 1945).
As for Jurges, he was a key part of three Cubs World Series teams in the 1930s, and a three-time all-star. The Cubs had dealt him to the Giants after the 1938 season, and Jurges continued to hit, posting a .324/.405/.403 line with the Giants in 1945. He caught on with the Boston Braves in 1946, but was released in spring training.
Jurges hit .222 in 82 games for the 1946 Cubs, whose 82-71 record put them 14 1/2 games behind St. Louis.
Verdict: Not a great move, but does anyone really think Jurges was worse than Lennie Merullo?
June 15, 1952 — The Cubs purchase infielder Tommy Brown from the Philadelphia Phillies. At 34-21 and 4 1/2 games behind the Brooklyn Dodgers, Cubs general manager Wid Matthews saw the possibilities of the Cubs hosting a young Mickey Mantle and the New York Yankees for the World Series. The Cubs actually had the best record in baseball for a team that played outside of the boroughs. Again, the shortstop and second base positions were shaky, with Roy Smalley Sr. and Eddie Miksis making young Cubs fans yearn for 2000, when Ricky Guttierez and Eric Young would hold down the middle infield.
Brown was only 24 years old, yet was a veteran of eight MLB seasons. He also was from Brooklyn, so maybe Matthews felt that by New Yorking his team up a little bit, the Cubs would be able to pass the Dodgers and Giants. Brown, didn’t cost much, as he was only hitting .160 for the Phils, who were presumably packing it in at 21-30 and 15 1/2 games behind the Dodgers.
Brown put up a solid .320/.358/.420 line for the Cubs, but the Cubs went 43-56 the rest of the way sputtering to a 77-77 record, finishing in fifth place, 19 1/2 games out of first. The Phillies, meanwhile went 66-37 the rest of the way to finish 87-67, 10 games in front of the Cubs. Without Brown, the two teams combined to go 100-58. With Brown, the two teams went 64-86.
Verdict: Tommy Brown is Michael Barrett (3-11 in games he started since joining the Padres, by the way) without shinguards. And Wid Matthews is Jim Hendry without the Dunkin’ Donuts tab.
June 24, 1963 — Cubs general manager John Holland trades relief pitcher Barney Schultz to St. Louis for pinch-hitter deluxe Leo Burke. At 38-33 and 3 1/2 games behind defending NL Champ San Francisco, the Cubs were in contention for the first time in a decade. St. Louis, meanwhile, was just half a game behind San Francisco.
Verdict: This trade didn’t really help or hurt the Cubs, who went 82-80 and finished seventh in the 10-team National League. Burke played 2 1/2 forgettable seasons with the Cubs. Schultz appeared to have three productive seasons in the St. Louis bullpen, saving 14 for the Cardinals in 1964. Of course, he also had a disatrous World Series, giving up eight earned runs in four innings, including a leadoff walk-off homer to Mickey Mantle in Game 3.
June 15, 1964 — The Cubs acquire Ernie Broglio, Bobby Shantz and Doug Clemens for Paul Toth, Jack Spring and Lou Brock. We need not elaborate.
Verdict: We have a hung jury. That is, the jury looked at this one and hanged themselves.
April 23, 1968 — The Cubs trade Jim Ellis and Ted Savage to the Los Angeles Dodgers
for Phil Regan and Jim Hickman.
The Cubs had just come off their winningest season since 1945, and while their nucleus was entering their prime, players like Ernie Banks were not getting any younger. Regan paid immediate dividends, saving 25 games in 1968 as the Cubs finished 82-80. Hickman and Regan were important parts of the 1969 Cubs.
Verdict: While not a trade deadline move, this was designed to help the Cubs win immediately. The Cubs got the better end of this deal.
June 11, 1969 — Cubs trade outfielder Adolfo Phillips and pitcher Jack Lamabe to Montreal for infielder Paul Popovich. This was actually a three-team deal as Popovich was sent to Montreal from the Dodgers, with Montreal also receiving Ron Fairly from Los Angeles, and the Dodgers receiving Maury Wills and Manny Mota.
While the Cubs were 37-18 and seven games in front of second-place New York, this trade hardly was the splash they needed. Popovich was a utility guy who could play three infield positions, and if pressed, the outfield. Jim Hendry liked The Paul Popovich Experience that he acquired a similar player from Montreal 25 years later.
Verdict: Meh. At least it wasn’t as bad as the trade John Holland swung in April, when he sent Joe Niekro and two other scrubs to San Diego for Dick Selma. This was a team crying for a blockbuster trade to help bring a title home. The Cubs had bait, too. Oscar Gamble was 19 and had almost as much promise as he had hair. Adolfo Phillips probably had some value, too, as did Don Young before his meltdown at Shea Stadium. Had John Holland procured a defensive center fielder, and another starting pitcher … aw, screw it.
June 23, 1970 — Cubs purchase Milt Pappas from Atlanta. Again, the Cubs were in first place at 35-29, and this time they were smarting from the spectacular collapse a year earlier. Pappas was 2-2 with a 6.06 ERA with Atlanta before losing his spot in the rotation. With the Cubs, he was 10-8, including 7-2 at Wrigley. He later won 17 games in 1971 and again in 1972. The Cubs finished 84-78, five games behind Pittsburgh.
Verdict: This is the type of acquisition we can hope for. Maybe the trade for Kendall will be likened to this, should Kendall rediscover his batting stroke. It was a low-risk, high-return acquisition, just as Kendall could be.
September 21, 1970 — Cubs acquire future Hall of Famer Hoyt Wilhelm from Atlanta in a waiver-wire deal. The Cubs were 80-72, two games behind Pittsburgh with 10 games to play.
Aha! This one was bold! This was daring! A real-live Hall-of-Famer on the Cubs! (OK, so they also
had Billy Williams, Ernie Banks, Ferguson Jenkins and Leo Durocher in uniform the day they acquired Wilhelm, not to mention should-be Hall-of-Famer Ron Santo, but c’mon!)
So how did this acquisition work? The Cubs had Sept. 21 and Sept. 22 off, and resumed play with a doubleheader at the Urinal Cake against the Cardinals. Jenkins lost game one 2-1 to Bob Gibson. In the nightcap, Bill Hands went seven innings allowing two runs before Wilhelm got to make his debut as a Cub. Wilhelm pitched an uneventful eighth, but the Cubs lost 2-1. So, the Cubs fell to 80-74 and 2 1/2 games out (and into third place, a half game behind the Mets). Not a great position to be in, but, hey — the Cubs had a Hall of Famer (albeit a 47-year-old Hall of Famer) in their bullpen!
The Cubs salvaged the third game of the series the next day, beating the Cards 7-1 behind a complete game out of Ken Holtzman. This lifted the Cubs into a tie for second with New York, 2 1/2 games behind Pittsburgh. Plus, the Cubs had three games ahead with the Phillies, who were 15 games under .500. In the series opener at brand-new Veterans Stadium, Pappas went 5 innings and allowed two runs before being pulled for a pinch hitter. Phil Regan opened the sixth by allowing back-to-back home runs to Tim McCarver and Don Money before giving way to Wilhelm. Wilhelm — the Hall of Famer in the Cubs’ bullpen — went two innings and allowed a run, but it didn’t matter anyway, as the Phils won 5-3. To make matters worse, Pittsburgh beat the Mets that night to move up 3 1/2 games on both teams with six to play.
Down four games with four to play, Wilhelm made his third and final outing as a Cub in relief of Ken Holtzman, whose Cubs were tied after nine innings. Wilhelm punctuated his stint with the Cubs by giving up a three-run walkoff homer to Wayne Garrett to send the Cubs home losers. Wilhelm was sent back to Atlanta and made 28 more appearances in the Majors before retiring.
Verdict: Deep in my heart of hearts, I fear that Hendry will send some cash to the Mets and take currently designated for assignment 49-year-old Julio Franco off of their hands. I’m not sure Franco’s stay with the Cubs would go as well as Wilhelm’s did. Wilhelm was a full two years younger than Franco is today.
June 13, 1984 — The Cubs were 34-25 and a game and a half better than second-place New York. General manager Dallas Green pulled off the boldest trade of his Cubs career, sending young outfielders Mel Hall and Joe Carter and pitchers Don Schulze and Daryl Banks to Cleveland for catcher Ron Hassey, reliever George Frazier and right-handed starter Rick Sutcliffe.
Sutcliffe went 16-1, won the NL Cy Young Award, helped the Cubs widen their division
lead, as they won the NL East by 6 1/2 games, won Game 1 of the NLCS and then faded in Game 5 as the Padres won the pennant. Still, Sutcliffe lasted eight more seasons with the Cubs, and during about 3 1/2 of those seasons, he was among the best pitchers in the National League.
Verdict: Everything about this looks like a winner. Even if it meant Joe Carter couldn’t stay around in the Cubs system long enough for Dallas Green to alienate him so Carter would never want to have anything to do with the organization ever again.
The one guy who was alienated by the Cubs organization was Hall. Green almost screwed up the trade as the details weren’t finalized until after the June 15 deadline. Because of that, all the players involved needed to clear waivers. The delay put everyone on the shelf for more than a week, irritating Hall, who angrily said about Sutcliffe, “Never heard of him. Wouldn’t mind hitting against him.”
Just a few weeks ago, we all found out that Sutcliffe’s pitching was not all that Hall wouldn’t mind hitting.
August 24, 1989 — Cubs general manager Jim Frey sends two minor leaguers to Atlanta for left-hander Paul Assenmacher. Five days later, Frey unloads Calvin Schiraldi and Darrin Jackson to San Diego for Marvell Wynne and Luis Salazar.
Verdict: Salazar has a nice September, and Assenmacher was a good pick-up (even though he wasn’t a savior for the Cubs in 1989). Wynne was awful, and the acquisitions of Wynne, Salazar and Assenmacher were a bit of a disappointment when the Cubs needed a better third baseman and an experienced catcher since Damon Berryhill was hurt, Joe Girardi was a rookie, and Rick Wrona was a rookie and awful. Days before the deadline, rumors of the Sox trading Carlton Fisk to the Cubs for Jeff Pico and Schiraldi surfaced. Fisk hit .282 (with an .867 OPS) in 26 meaningless games for the White Sox in September 1989, and how awesome would it be to see Pico and Schiraldi pitch BP to American League teams in White Sox uniforms?
June 16, 1995 — Cubs trade right-handed pitcher Mike Morgan and two minor leaguers to St. Louis for third baseman Todd Zeile and cash. At the time, the post-strike Cubs were 25-21, four games behind the first-place Reds, and only a game and a half behind Atlanta for the wild card spot. St. Louis was six under .500, and Joe Torre was well on his way to tanking the season so he could get canned and wind up in New York the next year. Zeile had hit to a .291/.378/.457 line with the Cardinals.
Verdict: It created a big splash the day the trade was made, but Zeile was useless with the Cubs. He hit .227 with a .271 OBP and the Cubs welcomed the ex-Cardinal by losing 10 of their next 14. New manager Ed Lynch knew he needed to make a bigger splash, so he again looked within the division.
June 28, 1995 — Cubs trade catcher Rick Wilkins to Houston for Scott Servais and a regular-sized Luis Gonzalez. At the time, the Cubs had sunk to 29-29 and were 7 1/2 out of first and 2 1/2 behind second-place Houston, who maybe thought Wilkins would be the guy they’d need to get over the hump — HA!
Verdict: Ed Lynch made two great trades as general manager, and this is one of them. Gonzalez was the steady hitter the Cubs needed and Servais was a monster — at least in 1995. Look at Servais’ numbers the rest of the season: .286/.371/.560, 12 HR, 35 RBI. Gonzalez only hit seven for the Cubs in 1995 and 15 for the Cubs in 1996. Only five seasons later, he hit 57 for the Diamondbacks. He was also much skinnier in 1995. But I digress. The Cubs finished 73-71, and they were mathematically in the race until the second-to-last game of the season.
July 29, 1998 and July 31, 1998 — The Cubs get Matt Karchner from the White Sox for Jon Garland on July 29, then deal Kevin Orie, Justin Speier and Todd Noel to the Marlins for Felix Heredia on July 31.
At 61-47, the Cubs were only 3 1/2 games behind Houston for first place in the division, and 3 games ahead of New York for the Wild Card. The White Sox were under .500 and left for dead, and Florida was still selling off players from the previous year’s World Series team.
Verdict: Ed Lynch played checkers while the Astros’ John Hunsicker played chess. The big prize was Seattle’s Randy Johnson, who was tall and ugly and said he had a bad back. Johnson was 9-10 with a 4.28 ERA with the M’s. Lou screamed at him a lot. He screamed back at Lou. He was also 34 and at the downside of his career, right? Somehow, I think Lynch tried to reassure himself with that line of reasoning the day he got Heredia and the Astros sent Freddy Garcia, John Halama and Carlos Guillen to Seattle for Johnson.
Johnson went 10-1 with a 1.28 ERA during his two-month rental in Houston. The Cubs bullpen continued to struggle, the rotation depended heavily on Kevin Tapani’s inexplicable resurgence, Steve Trachsel’s demeanor and Kerry Wood’s original elbow tendon, and the Cubs backed into a tie for the Wild Card lead. And we won’t go into how Garland for Karchner has turned into a punchline in meth labs all over the Southwest suburbs.
Verdict: If any acquisition can take credit for the Cubs making the playoffs, it didn’t happen the days before the trade deadline in 1998.
August 19, 1998 — Cubs sign Gary Gaetti after he was released by the Cardinals.The Cubs were 69-57, 1 game behind New York for the Wild Card lead.
Verdict: Gaetti had a .991 OPS for the Cubs in 1998. His pickup facilitated the benching of Jeff Blauser. He also hit a big home run to give the Cubs the lead in the tiebreaker against the Giants. Who cares if Gaetti returned to the Cubs in 1999 to suck and forever ruin our memories of him?
May 21, 1999 — Desperate for a closer after Rod Beck (RIP, Shooter) was injured, the Cubs send minor leaguers Kyle Lohse and Jason Ryan to the Twins for Rick Aguilera (and Scott Downs). The Cubs were 22-17, 2 1/2 games behind Houston and a game and a half behind the Wild Card leading Mets.
Verdict: Although Ed Lynch was still the general manager, Andy MacPhail engineered this trade through and through. (He also played a big part in bringing Gaetti to Chicago and keeping him here.) MacPhail had a good relationship with Aguilera when they were with the Twins. He convinced Aguilera to waive the no-trade clause and come to Chicago, and save our season. And save it, Aguilera did, in a way that not even Neifi Perez could do.
He set the tone in the second appearance he made as a Cub. He came in the ninth with a 5-3 lead, hoping to save the win for Jon Lieber. After retiring hot dog magnate the Marlins’ Dave Berg on a deep fly ball to right center, Aguilera allowed back-to-back line drive singles to Bruce Aven and Luis Castillo. After retiring Alex Gonzalez (the one not on Kermit’s list) on a pop-up, Cliff Floyd hit an RBI single to make the lead only one. The next batter, Kevin Millar, hit a deep fly ball into the right-field corner. I was at that game. It was, at worst, a legitimate triple for Millar. Either way, he circled the bases, and the Cubs trailed 7-5.
The Cubs finished 67-95 and Aguilera picked up eight saves. This season was a total, unmitigated disaster.
July 2001 — The Cubs trade a couple of scrubs for Fred McGriff. Then they wait for McGriff to weigh the benefits of spending the rest of the season with a team with a big fan following in contention or spending it with an awful team with no fans. On July 27, McGriff decided he would go to Chicago.
Verdict: The Cubs made another trade that month, sending serial eater Ruben Quevedo to
Milwaukee for another guy who enjoyed a meal or two, David Weathers. But Weathers hadn’t become a closer at that point, and everybody got excited at the prospect of getting a real-live borderline Hall-of-Famer! McGriff didn’t want to be in Chicago, and everybody knew it. In case there was any doubt, he played first base as if he was serving a 25-year prison sentence. I really don’t want to talk about it. August 2001 was a lousy month to be a Cubs fan, and September 2001 a lousy month to be an American. At least October 2001 was a great month to be a Bears fan.
July 23, 2003 — With Corey Patterson injured and third base a big void, the Cubs send retread Jose Hernandez, minor leaguer Matt Bruback and a player to be named later (Bobby Hill) to the Pirates for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton. At the time, the Cubs were 50-50, five and a half out of first and six and a half out of the Wild Card lead.
Verdict: Going outbound were two B126 members and a minor leaguer who never saw the light of a city larger than Columbus, Ohio. Coming in was a genuine leadoff hitter who gave the Cubs the spark they needed AND the best third baseman ever since the Cubs tried signing a 47-year-old knuckleballer to save their season.
July 31, 2004 — The Cubs send Alex Gonzalez, Brendan Harris and Francis Beltran to Montreal and minor leaguer Justin Jones to the Minnesota Twins. Boston sends Matt Murton and Nomar Garciaparra to the Cubs.
Verdict: Boston got Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz out of the deal and three months later were world champions. On the other hand, Beltran, Alex Gonzalez, Harris and Justin Jones were of little value, and the Cubs still DO have Matt Murton, even if he’s living in Rod Beck’s old trailer at Sec Taylor Stadium.
Nomar was a huge upgrade over Alex Gonzalez, who had regressed in 2004 into being a worse option than Rey Ordonez. The only problem was Nomar was still injured, and the Cubs needed another shortstop to play every few days. Thus, the start of the Neifi Perez era.
That said, Nomar did more to keep the Cubs in the Wild Card race (they were 2 games behind San Diego when the trade was made) than he had to do with the Cubs’ collapsing.
July 31, 2005 — Just 13 days after trading Jason Dubois to Cleveland for Jody Gerut, the Cubs trade Gerut to Pittsburgh for centerfielder Matt Lawton.
The Cubs were 53-52, four games behind Wild Card leader (and eventual NL champion) Houston when they declared themselves in the race. Corey Patterson wasn’t injured this year, unless hurt feelings can land you on the disabled list. Actually, Patterson was in Iowa when this move was made, and this trade looked good on its face. Lawton was hitting a .273/.380/.435 line with 10 homers and 16 stolen bases when the deal was made.
Lawton spent three weeks in Chicago where he hit .244/.289/.308 with a homer and one stolen base. He was then sent to the Yankees for a minor league pitcher that is now probably assistant manager at the Shreveport Jiffy Lube. Lawton hit .125 with the Yankees before testing positive for steroids.
Verdict: Let’s see. Lawton did almost nothing for the Cubs, who fell out of the race shortly after the trade. This was a series of one bad player for another trades, but let’s not forget the other impact of the Dubois-Gerut trade. Gerut sucked, but maybe he would have gotten hot if he had stayed in Cleveland, where he had enjoyed a fairly productive career. Maybe he would have lit up the AL in late September, giving the Indians the couple of extra wins they would have needed during the White Sox near collapse. Then, who knows, the World Series might have taken place.
That’s 60 years, 20 deals (or sets of deals), and here’s the final tally: three great (Borowy, Sutcliffe, and Ramirez/Lofton), four good (Regan/Hickman, Pappas, Servais/Gonzalez and Gaetti), three OK (Popovich, Salazar/Wynne/Assenmacher, Nomar/Murton), three non-factors (Jurges, Burke, Zeile), three bad (Brown, Wilhelm, Lawton) and four disasters (Broglio, Heredia/Karchner, Aguilera, McGriff). That’s (more or less) seven that turned out well, six that had little positive or negative effect, and seven that gave us bad tastes. Is that bad? Yes! Of the 20 trades, 35 percent made the Cubs worse off, and 65 percent of the trades didn’t improve them.
And that brings us (thank God) to 2007, where Hendry has turned Bag O’Hammers Barrett into Rob Bowen into Jason Kendall. Will he turn Jacque Jones into a pumpkin? Just 13 days to find out.
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BigFlax
PenFoe
StPatrick
CT
CactusMcHarris
Analysis? Insight? Intelligent writing? Historical accuracy? What the hell is going on around here?
Great read, TJ. Nice work.
Yeah, that was really well written. They should have interviewed you for that “Wait ‘Till Next Year” documentary instead of all those morons.
Have a nice time BK. We’ll keep it going around here with mediocre wit and snarkiness.
Julio Franco has signed with the Braves.
So TJ, I check your blog everyday for signs of life, and THIS is where you resurface?
There will be a reckoning, I reckon.
TJ, nicely done.
If your phone rings and the caller ID says “Bill Buckner”, don’t answer it.
What I’m going to write is going to be very elementary compared to this. Elementarily awesome.
But, wow, this was pretty damn sweet. It got me thru 10 minutes on the pot here at work. Thank you.
Only 10, TDubb. 15 for me. Problem with bringing it in to the throne is that you can’t enjoy the “mouse-overs’ or the links.
Damn that’s some mighty fine work, TJ. Although I agree with Section 242 that the Billy Buck-for-Eckersley trade should have been included.
And it’s “Jerry” Hunsicker.
Hunsicker’s mom wanted to call him John.