#10: “You Make Me” Juan “to Puke” Pierre


CAUTION: DANGEROUS IVORYWhen it became clear that Corey Patterson was no longer welcome with the Cubs, they were in need of a superstar center fielder. When they couldn’t find one, they settled on Juan Pierre. Pierre brought his undeserved reputation for being a good base stealer, his complete lack of power, his rag arm, and his idiotic McDonald’s commercial with him. You know who clearly doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball? Jay-Z. Juan Pierre is without a doubt the worst player to ever obtain “superstar” status.

On December 7, 2005, the Cubs traded Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco, and Renyel Pinto to the Florida Marlins for Pierre in a move which was long rumored to be in the works. The rumors gave Cubs fans plenty of time to get angry about the trade.

Pierre was excited to patrol in front of the ivory at Wrigley Field. Yes, ivory. Prior to the 2003 NLCS, Pierre said that the only thing he was nervous about was crashing into the “ivory” on the walls of Wrigley Field. If by “ivory” Pierre meant “my fist,” and by “crashing” he meant “getting punched repeatedly by,” then his worries were justifiable. If you recall, that 2003 NLCS was the same NLCS during which Pierre was a complete nightmare for Cubs pitching. Imagine my surprise that it didn’t translate once he put on the blue pinstripes.

Let me run you through about 90% of Pierre’s Cub at-bats. On the first pitch, Pierre fakes like he’s going to bunt. Called strike one. Here’s a question. Why? Why in the hell is Pierre faking a bunt on the first pitch of every at-bat? I’m pretty sure that opposing teams already have the scouting report on Pierre. It reads:

Good speed. Absolutely no chance of hitting the ball out of the ballpark infield. Sprays balls to all infielders. Defensively, should consider using short-centerfielder with two outfielders. Likes to bunt for 200 meaningless singles each year. Used to have a ridiculous mustache. Wears baseball cap under batting helmet like he’s still in f@#$ing tee ball. Looks like he’s in f@#$ing tee ball. Hits like he’s in f@#$ing tee ball. Pitch him like he’s in f@#$ing tee ball. Seriously. Go ahead. Walk the ball up to him, set it on a tee, and watch him “square up” a three-hopper to the first baseman.

Seriously, what was the point of Pierre faking a bunt on the first pitch? Everyone knew the only chance he had of reaching first base safely was to bunt. Pierre showing bunt was about as surprising as Lindsay Lohan admitting that she has an eating disorder and boob job. No. F@#$ing. Shit.

The second pitch of a typical Pierre at bat is usually fouled straight back to the screen. Generally, that was the best contact you were going to see during the at-bat. With Pierre, you took what you could get. “Holy shit! Pierre hit a line drive!” you might say. “So what if it was going in the exact opposite direction that we need it to go? It was a screamer!”

On the third pitch, Pierre swings with all his might and hits a seven-hopper to the second baseman. Most of the excitement of watching Pierre play comes in the moment between the time he makes contact, and the time he is thrown out at first base by half a step. Pierre is so astonishingly weak, that opposing second basemen have to charge his grounders at full speed. So every routine 4-3 putout makes idiot fans like me rise to our feet in the hopes that Pierre will beat out the throw to first. Pierre is that perfect combination of speed and limp-dick hitting which makes him all but guaranteed to be thrown out by just a split second on every single groundout. Exciting, I guess, but also a complete waste of 1/3 of an inning each time Pierre steps to the plate.

Pierre has a reputation for not striking out often. What’s his secret? He swings early, and he swings often. Pierre has no idea how to wait for a hitter’s pitch, which is fine since he wouldn’t know what to do with it, anyhow, what with him not being an actual hitter.

Since Pierre refuses to take pitches, he also rarely walks, and he doesn’t see many pitches per at-bat. Basically, he pretty much blows as a leadoff hitter. Yet somehow he was Jim Hendry’s 2006 answer to the leadoff question. Good God. Perhaps if Pierre had spent his pregame routine standing in the batter’s box watching pitches and identifying balls and strikes instead of rolling his balls down the foul lines, he might have been a more useful player.

I’d like to take this opportunity to set the record straight about Pierre’s abilities as a base stealer. Pierre sucks at stealing bases. He’s terrible at it. The guy is fast, no doubt. But he doesn’t get good jumps, he doesn’t read pitchers well, and he never surprises anyone when he chooses to run. That’s why in his career Pierre has only been successful in 73% of his steal attempts. In comparison, legitimate base stealer Rickey Henderson stole successfully 81% of the time. What? It’s not fair to compare the eventual Hall of Famer to Pierre? Okay. Then former center fielder Corey Patterson also stole bases at an 81% rate. Sure, he didn’t steal as many bases as Pierre, but he gave away an out less than one out of every five times he was on base. Pierre gave one away greater than one out of every four times.

Screw you, Pierre, for making me defend Corey Patterson.

Pierre was equally impotent in the field. Sorry, Juan. Every time he threw home, I expected Michael Barrett to start doing a jig next to an enormous pot of gold. Pierre’s arm is so outstandingly bad, even the completely disinterested Los Angeles sports media realizes. You have to be all kinds of awful for a sportswriter in California to acknowledge it. Christ, Dusty Baker didn’t even draw that much ire in his time in San Francisco.

Pierre was let go after the 2006 season to make room for new center fielder Alfonso Soriano/Felix Pie/Matt Murton/Jacque Jones/Angel Pagan. One of the guys the Cubs gave up for one worthless year of Pierre, meanwhile, has gone 2-2 with a 1.89 ERA and a 1.112 WHIP. That’s right. Sergio Mitre is pitching great this year.

Screw you, Larry Rothschild.


Low Point: Everyone’s favorite leadoff hitter only drew two walks in the entire month of September, 2006, and both of those came in the same game. Pierre went twenty-five games at the end of the season (nearly all of September into October) without drawing a single walk. To illustrate how bad that is, Pierre actually had one more home run during that time than he did walks.


Did You Know? In case you’ve been waiting this whole time to come with a “but he had 200 hits” argument, think again. Pierre’s 204 hits in 2006 were the most hollow 204 hits in Major League history. Pierre is only the second player ever to record more than 200 hits in a season without batting .300 (Pierre hit .292). Buddy Bell did it in 1979. The only difference is that Bell just barely got the hits (exactly 200) and just barely missed the average (he hit .299). Oh, and Bell hit 18 homers, drove in 101 RBIs, and slugged .451, as opposed to Pierre’s 3 homers, 40 RBIs, and .388 SLG.


97 thoughts on “#10: “You Make Me” Juan “to Puke” Pierre

  • MattGerst

    Okay…

    I read this just yesterday…and saw that the argument ended a while back…but I wanted to write in—maybe Kermit and A Ram Baller will see what i post…

    Okay…you guys are arguing that Juan Pierre sucks as CF. I would have to agree—and here is why…

    A Ram Baller—-in baseball, your only resource that you have are ‘outs.’ They are the only thing that you KNOW will be empty at the end of the game. Yes you get 3 strikes, and strikes are resource in a way, but after 3 strikes—its leads to an out. Not counting extra innings—you have 27 ‘outs’ to score more runs than the other team does with their 27 ‘outs.’

    Now before I argue why Juan Pierre is bad—let me defend his defensive ability in CF—I agree with Kermit that he is not an ‘outstanding’ defensive CF’er, but, he is adequate to better than average. His arm is atrocious. In reality, and in the long run, it has been proven, that OF defense impacts the game a lot less than the offense the batter puts out. Now—before you start in on the “oh if u let every ball drop, and misplay every ball, then you aren’t going to give up a lot of runs?”—okay, dont be a douche bag about this—I’m saying, that, as Juan Pierre plays—with his adequate to good OF range, and bad arm…he covers enough ground to maintain an average to above average amont of ‘outs’ that he catches in the OF. He may catch slightly more balls/game than an average CF, but by very very little. Maybe 1 ball every 2-3 games would ANY outstanding CF catch that a ‘normal’ CF not catch.

    Now—to the batting…

    First I am going to compare statistics—this year and last (since that is basically the argument–him as a 2006 Cub) for Juan Pierre and a few of the CF’s mentioned that he is ‘better’ than and ‘worse’ than in Kermit and ARB’s eyes…

    (2007 listed, followed by 2006—its going to be a lot of them just to show something—)

    Juan Pierre–
    271-304-321 26/8 sb/cs…..321 AB 87 H 14 BB 103 Total Bases (335 Plate App) *NOT including HBP
    292-330-388 58/20 sb/cs…..699 AB 204 H 32 BB 271 Total Bases (731 Plate App)

    Jacque Jones–
    233-294-327 2/1 sb/cs…..202 AB 47 H 16 BB 66 Total Bases (218 Plate App)
    285-334-499 9/1 sb/cs…..533 AB 152 H 35 BB 266 Total Bases (568 Plate App)

    Kenny Lofton–
    290-372-416 16/4 sb/cs…..238 AB 69 H 31 BB 99 Total Bases (269 Plate App)
    301-360-403 32/5 sb/cs…..469 AB 141 H 45 BB 189 Total Bases (514 Plate App)

    Alfonso Soriano–
    305-353-551 10/3 sb/cs…..305 AB 93 H 20 BB 168 Total Bases (325 Plate App)
    277-351-560 41/14 sb/cs…..647 AB 179 H 67 BB 362 Total Bases (714 Plate App)

    Corey Patterson–
    225-278-302 14/4 sb/cs…..222 AB 50 H 13 BB 67 Total Bases (235 Plate App)
    276-314-443 45/9 sb/cs…..463 AB 128 H 21 BB 205 Total Bases (484 Plate App)

    Chris Duffy–
    249-313-357 13/4 sb/cs…..241 AB 60 H 21 BB 86 Total Bases (262 Plate App)
    255-317-338 26/1 sb/cs…..314 AB 80 H 19 BB 106 Total Bases (333 Plate App)

    Curtis Granderson–
    294-346-564 9/0 sb/cs…..296 AB 87 H 24 BB 167 Total Bases (320 Plate App)
    260-335-438 8/5 sb/cs…..596 AB 155 H 66 BB 261 Total Bases (662 Plate App)

    Chris Young–
    *2006 sample size irrelevant*
    242-281-435 8/0 sb/cs…..248 AB 60 H 11 BB 108 Total Bases (259 Plate App)

    Mike Cameron–
    264-324-444 8/4 sb/cs…..295 AB 78 H 24 BB 131 Total Bases (319 Plate App)
    268-355-482 25/9 sb/cs…..552 AB 148 H 71 BB 266 Total Bases (623 Plate App)

    ————-Now, that I’m Finally done with all that…

    these are the players argued that Juan Pierre is BETTER than…

    now, for my argument…

    I am now going to adjust these stats so that counting stats dont matter (Batting Average, Stolen Bases, Caught Stealing)

    and here is how I am going to present this to you…

    A players On-Base % is the amount of times the player reached base divided by the total plate appearances…and slugging percentage which is total bases divided by total at-bats…

    and so I am going to present you with a new idea of how to look at these statistics…

    batting average is a meaningless statistic in that—it DOES NOT affect the game and/or your team’s play or the ability to win a baseball game…the ONLY real thing that matters is the ability to get on (and stay on base) in the process of scoring a run…remember—NOT making outs is THE critical factor in the game….

    My version of these Formulas:

    On-Base %—will be the same in that—it is dependant on the amount the amount of times a player reaches base in his total AB’s…but I will be SUBTRACTING a “caught stealing” from the amount of times the player reached because the player is no long on base to score a run…

    i.e. My Formula for On-Base %
    Hits + Walks + HBP – Caught Stealing / Plate App

    For Slugging Percentage—is calculated by dividing the Total Bases a player reaches by Total At-Bats (not Plate App)….Slugging % is a valuable part of the game in that, a player with a higher slugging % generally represents a player with ‘more power’ and reach 2nd base on a hit easier (double) or has a greater percent chance of hitting a Home Run—scoring a Run before the usage of all 27 Outs…my differentiation will include Stolen Bases onto Total Bases…in essence, a player who hits a single, and successfully steals 2nd Base, has basically hit a double when you take away the counting statistic of Stolen Base….

    i.e. My Formula for Slugging Percentage
    Total Bases + Stolen Bases / At Bats

    Now…let’s re-adjust the statistics to find out just how good Juan (and just how good the other CF’s) compare with each other…

    Adjusted Statistics—factoring out MEANINGLESS counting statistics: Batting Average, Hits, Stolen Bases, Caught Stealing…and assessing the players ability to reach (AND remain on) base and slugging %…and finally—it will calibrate itself into “Production”—which is the value of each player—based on their ‘adujsted OBP’ and their adjusted SLG’…Production will weigh MUCH heavier on OBP–because as I’ve said, the rate at which players get on base is MUCH more important than Slugging%…(and I do understand that slugging is very important—hence, it is one of my 2 VALUABLE statistics)—because the outcome of a game does not mean continuously reaching 1st base and moving station to station…because slugging can and does aid a team to score a run when the percentages of scoring are low…(2 outs runner on 1st, nobody on base, etc.)…but he ability to get on base is most important, and enables your team the highest probabilty to score, making OBP the more imporant of the 2 statistics—because, remember, the ability to not make outs is the most important facet of the game…therefore—OBP will be weighed rate of 67% to 33% over slugging—

    …all of which apply to not making ‘outs’ and wasting the game’s most valuable resource:

    : *2006 season rated followed by current, 2007 season*
    OBP = On Base %
    SLG = Slugging %
    PRD = Production (OBP*2) + (SLG) / 3

    Juan Pierre:
    2007 OBP: 278 SLG: 402 PRD: 319 AVG PRD: 337
    2006 OBP: 295 SLG: 471 PRD: 354

    Jacque Jones:
    2007 OBP: 284 SLG: 337 PRD: 302 AVG PRD: 346
    2006 OBP: 327 SLG: 516 PRD: 390

    Kenny Lofton:
    2007 OBP: 357 SLG: 483 PRD: 399 AVG PRD: 396
    2006 OBP: 352 SLG: 471 PRD: 392

    Alfonso Soriano:
    2007 OBP: 338 SLG: 548 PRD: 408 AVG PRD: 416
    2006 OBP: 325 SLG: 623 PRD: 424

    Corey Patterson:
    2007 OBP: 251 SLG: 365 PRD: 289 AVG PRD: 331
    2006 OBP: 289 SLG: 540 PRD: 373

    Chris Duffy:
    2007 OBP: 294 SLG: 411 PRD: 333 AVG PRD: 335
    2006 OBP: 294 SLG: 420 PRD: 336

    Curtis Granderson:
    2007 OBP: 347 SLG: 595 PRD: 430 AVG PRD: 399
    2006 OBP: 326 SLG: 451 PRD: 368

    Chris Young:
    2007 OBP: 274 SLG: 468 PRD: 339 AVG PRD: 339
    2006 *Stats Irrelevant*

    Mike Cameron:
    2007 OBP: 307 SLG: 471 PRD: 362 AVG PRD: 381
    2006 OBP: 337 SLG: 527 PRD: 400

    and so, what do we gather from this?….

    based on the AVERAGE production level:

    of the CF’s on this list…they are most valuable in this order (with their 2007 salaries—just for fun):

    Alfonso Soriano: 416 10 M
    Curtis Granderson: 399 410 K !!
    Kenny Lofton: 396 6 M
    Mike Cameron: 381 7 M
    Jaque Jones: 346 5.6 M
    Chris Young: 339 380 K
    Juan Pierre: 337 7.5 M
    Chris Duffy: 335 395 K
    Corey Patterson: 331 4.3 M

    and there you have it…juan pierre is just a SLIGHT upgrade over CHRIS DUFFY…who is only a SLIGHT upgrade over COREY PATTERSON…

    As Far as the Jacque Jones debate: So far in 2007, Jacque has the LOWEST production of any player on the list…yet his average (from a strong 390–which would put him in the top half of the list) places him basically middle of the pack—yet higher than Juan Pierre…

    Soriano is the best CF on THIS list…and I may test others later on—BUT…Curtis Granderson is having a season (430 Production) that is the best of any player (Soriano’s 2006: 424 was 2nd)…

    I was even surprised at that…

    I would be even more surprised—if he was a free agent this year if he even SNIFFED soriano’s contract numbers…goes to show the intelligence of GM’s and the importance of NAME recognition…just ask juan pierre (7.5 M salary)…

    Later I will do this for ALL the CF’s…and for any random players…such as ‘Lead-off Hitters’…etc etc…

  • A-Ram Baller

    Too bad Soriano isn’t a CF. Listen you can do your formulas and say what stats are more important than others but the bottom line is that when you get a Juan Pierre you are paying for three things. 1. He makes contact, the guy almost never strikes out. 2. He will steal 50+ bases a year, he will get caught he share but he turns singles into doubles by stealing a base. 3. He has a lot of range in the outfield. Felix Pie might be good one day, but I would rather have JP leading off and Soriano batting behind him. Maybe those 14 solo shots would be two-run homers instead. Thats value not your formulas. Now here comes the bashing so bring it on. I really think none of you have a job so this will go on all day.

  • MattGerst

    I really only have a few things…

    1st…strikeouts dont matter (that much)…they are an out…as useless as any other out…

    2nd…i added in his SB totals into the formula as a good thing…

    3rd…i subtracted the CS into the formula as bad thing…its just that i used them both as part of the formula to make sense…

    i.e. a caught stealing negates on-base percentage…while a SB adds up to SLG %…b/c, like you said, a SB from 1st to 2nd is like a double…so i added that on to slugging percentage…

    the amount of K’s a player has is hardly meaningful…outs are outs…you have 27 to outs to score more runs than your opponent…

    you do not ‘use’ outs…u try, at all costs, to avoid being out…

    the formula shows that you can rank players as to how well they ‘do not get out’ and, if some get out more than others, hitting for extra bases, hitting HR’s, stealing bases aid them…but since this happens at such a lower rate than actually getting on base (a player is league AVG. if his OBP is 350, on base is MUCH more valuable than slugging)…

    juan pierre gets ‘hits’…i agree…he has the most on this list with 204…

    but juan pierre’s ability to get on base, in the overall-grand scheme of things, and being a valuable player, is less than many others on this list…

    i am not saying juan pierre is a bad baseball player…i happen to like watching him sometimes, but, the reality is…if i owned a major league baseball team, i would want many other players roaming CF before juan pierre…and many of them reside on the list of players you pointed out as being inferior to pierre…

    Pierre may have more ‘range’ than your typical CF…i do agree with you…he has world class wheels…but the fact is…the other players on this list are not, for the most part ‘slow’ and their speed is not leaps and bounds different from Pierre’s…alas, pierre can track down MORE fly balls than the ‘average’ CF…but not much more so to make a difference that justifies carrying his bat in the lineup…

    Note* Soriano was put on this list in reference to you speaking of Pierre being a better Leadoff Hitter…

    Note* Never use strikeouts as a deterrent to a player…I think it is VERY safe to say, that the cubs having Soriano leading off is much better than pierre…although it doesnt happen often I think we can all agree that we like when Soriano leads off the game with a HR and the cubs are winning 1-0 right off the bat…

    Juan Pierre is a good baseball player. He is better than many other team’s options at CF. He is just not nearly as good as many people think. His glove is good. I agree. But not to the point that it warrants his bat being in the lineup everyday over the other players on this list…

  • BigFlax

    Let me sum up the last few posts for people who find Matt a bit long-winded:

    Matt: *remarkably sophisticated system showing why Pierre is, offensively, pretty much a drag overrated because of his speed*

    A-Ram Baller: You are wrong because I said so. He steals bases and stretches singles into doubles. I am going to conveniently ignore all his caught stealings, which stretch singles into outs. Strikeouts are the worst kind of outs you can make, apparently. I am capable of posting from work but everyone else here is unemployed.

    Everyone: *smacks forehead*

  • bocaj

    A-Ram Baller is obviously right! why else would he repeatedly come on this site to make his points? to be anoying or be a douche? because he has nothing better to do? to make himself feel big? i think not! why can’t we all just sit back and look at the facts and try and work this out? maybe we all can learn a little something about ourselves…

  • A-Ram Baller

    “why else would he repeatedly come on this site to make his points”

    Isn’t that why all of you come to this site? To try to have discussions about the Cubs, right? I stumbled onto this site through another site that I was a big fan of: “Fire Dusty Baker”. While looking around I found that Juan Pierre was listed 10th on the 126 worst Cubs of Bad Kermit’s lifetime. I found that to be wierd. I have been a Cubs fan my whole life and I am very upset with how after 2003 “fans” love to belittle them. I tried to make a point that JP’s ONE YEAR in a Cubs uniform wasn’t bad enough for him to warrent a bottom 10 ranking. Because of this I have become the whipping boy for all you “2003ers”. Whatever, block me from the chatroom, approve my comments, or do whatever you have to do to make YOURSELF fell big. The bottom line is that I am pretty sure you made this site for Cubs fans, so why do and your croonies try to put yourselves on this higher level of Cubs “Fan-ness?”

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    You know what’s a good way to prove you’re a “fan”? Tell everyone who disagrees with you that they’re not a “fan.” Also, always put “fan” in quotes.

    At least that’s what I heard.

    A-Ram, you’re blocked from the Shoutbox because I warned you not to impersonate other posters since it’s annoying, confusing, disruptive, and incredibly juvenile, and you responded by impersonating ME. I don’t give a shit if you make fun of my writing or disagree with me, but you WILL respect the ONE rule I have for the site. Have I blocked any of your mindless and insulting comments? If you promise to behave and argue in a civilized (albeit totally uneducated) manner, I’ll gladly unblock you from the Shoutbox. But don’t go into my backyard, piss in my pool, and cry foul when there are consequences.

    Oh, and lighten the f@#$ up.

  • A-Ram Baller

    I could really care less about the fucking shoutbox or your rules. It’s not that I don’t believe you are a fan, (which you must have to be to make this site), it is just a lot Cubs fans since 2003 have gotten this chip on their shoulder that after almost 100 years of not winning that they have all the answers. It’s the same people who booed Sammy when he struck out and cheered when he hit homers. Don’t get me wrong Sammy was a roid/cork fiend, but he was good for the Cubs. But you, Kermit, have totally gone drunk with power with this site. So drunk that you probably are not even reading this, you are just writing your rebuttal that has something to do with me being uneducated or something. So you can dish it but you can’t take it? Listen I liked the Dusty site, the Lou site was cool, but now you are on one. I could really care less about what you think about the Cubs because you are the one who needs to be educated about what the Chicago Cubs are. You really think after a 5 game win streak that the Cubs are going to the World Series? I hope that message to the MLB was a joke, but I think you really feel that way. Come-on, really? I really hope that the Cubs do take the Brewers for the Central but I don’t see it happening if they don’t get some serious bullpen help. So there is no need for me to “lighten the fuck up” because all I have been doing keeping it light. You have fun bashing me in your comeback, but remember who really needs to lighten up. I work and when I get some down time I come here and see what you are talking about and maybe try to throw 2 cents here and there. It seems to me all you have is down time because you are on here all day every day in that shoutbox chatting like thirteen year-olds on myspace. I should lighten up? Wow, that was the funniest thing I saw all day.

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    So, before I wasn’t a fan because I bashed the Cubs. Now I’m not a fan because I’m rooting for them to take the Brewers?

    You make some great arguments.

  • A-Ram Baller

    Come on man, read. I didn’t say you are not a fan, i said that you are a fair weather fan. Get it straight.

  • bocaj

    First of all A-Ram Baller i’m on your side, so why do you attack me?

    And A-Ram did you say you liked the Fire Lou Piniella site?

  • EDogg

    LOL I found this site while watching a Dodgers’ game and being frustrated by the terribleness of Juan Pierre. This was right at the top of the list when I googled “Juan Pierre sucks”.

    Bad Kermit is spot on with his analysis of Pierre. He hits the nail on the head completely even down to the mannerisms and types of AB’s that Pierre has.

    A-Ram: You really must not have a clue how any stats work. Pierre is well below average offensively. You choose SB’s and BA as the be-all and end-all of baseball stats. Those really aren’t very good stats for determining true offensive value. The goal in baseball is to score runs. You score runs by getting on base and then coming around to score. Pierre is on base barely over 30% of the time. That is terrible for a leadoff man (or any batter besides a pitcher).

    One other question for A-Ram: Is your real name Ned Colletti?

  • A-Ram Baller

    As terrible as you think JP is, he would be a lot better then the revolving door in center we have now.

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    Wrong again, friend.

    Jacque Jones in CF: .254/.327/.408

    Angel Pagan in CF: .258/.320/.472

    Juan Pierre in CF: .279/.312/.332

    You know, there are simple ways to avoid making statements like this…

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    Oh, God, if it was OPS, they’d be truly HORRIBLE. It’s SLG. I don’t want either of those morons in CF, either, but they’d be better than Pierre.

  • A-Ram Baller

    JP is never going to hit homers, but he is better than Jock or Pagan no matter what numbers you throw out there. Is JP ideal? No. Would he help us now? Yes, especialy since our lead-off guy is down for the rest of the season. (I don’t buy the month, he tore his quad. That is a big injury. Aramis strained his a couple years back in like the middle of Aug and didn’t come back. The Cubs are just saying that he will be back so the collective Cubs Fans don’t jump off the Hancock Building.)

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    “he is better than Jock or Pagan no matter what numbers you throw out there”

    A-Ram, you’ve been so good lately, and now you’re slipping into “I am Juan Pierre” mode again. I’m using stats to disprove your argument that JP would help the Cubs better than their current options do. You haven’t shown a single stat which refutes it, and your only argument is, “Don’t use stats.” Why not? I understand JP doesn’t hit home runs. Neither does Jock. If Pierre is not going to hit home runs, though, he’d better get on base a lot more often to make up for his absurd lack of power. He doesn’t. He sucks. Get over it.

  • A-Ram Baller

    So JP has got on base less THIS YEAR than Jock/Pagan/Pie? Jocks OBP is the same as JP, and Pagan’s and Pie’s are less as of today. Not mention Stolen Bases (which you call irrevelent). But whatever, Juan Pierre slept with your girlfriend or something and now you swear he is the worst thing possible. We just called up Corey Patterson’s little less talented brother. I just don’t seriously think that what we have in center this year is any better than JP. That is all I am saying.

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    Once again (try reading it more slowly this time):

    Jock in CF: .272/.337/.430 (.767 OPS)
    Pagan in CF: .240/.297/.440 (.737 OPS)
    Pierre in CF: .277/.314/.331 (.645 OPS)
    Pie in CF: .215/.272/.348 (.620 OPS)

    Cubs overall in CF: .244/.303/.400 (.703 OPS)

    You said “As terrible as you think JP is, he would be a lot better then the revolving door in center we have now.”

    It’s simply not true. Both Jock and Pagan have been better in CF in 2007 than Pierre. Pie has been slightly worse (although certainly not by much), and the Cubs CF position as a whole has an OPS nearly 60 points higher than Pierre’s. Give it up unless you’re going to come with something stronger than the nonsense you’re throwing out here.

    And I’d rather JP had slept with my girlfriend than have his dick in my mouth like you do.

  • A-Ram Baller

    What about SB’s? You don’t expect Pierre to have a bigger OPS than those guys. But in general JP gets on base more, it doesn’t matter if Jock is playing CF or RF, his numbers are worse than JP’s overall. This is not nonsense, this is you saying your opinion backing it up with the stats that YOU think are important. I personaly don’t think SB’s are this throw away stat that you try to say they are but whatever it’s your opinion. So if all you have is that Pierre doesn’t hit for power and that is what makes him worse than what we have now then fine. We WOULD be better off if JP was playing CF for us right now, sorry. I am not JP’s biggest fan or anything we just have a hole out there that has not been filed since we got rid of him. So I wonder why did we get rid of him, because he hits the ball in play? Steals bases? Gets 200 hits? Strikes out fewer than anyone else in the league? All of those things Jock/Pagan/Pie/E.Patterson could not do in a simulated season of “MLB 07 The Show”. “Itís simply not true. Both Jock and Pagan have been better in CF in 2007 than Pierre”. Why? because they hit for power. This is not a home-run hitting contest. Overall stat wise, in all posistions, JP IS having a better year then those guys. It just makes YOU, not me, look like there is a dick in you mouth.

  • A-Ram Baller

    One more thing, does AVG. not mean anything to you to? Because according to your Stats, JP is hitting almost 30 points higher then the clowns we have now.

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    No, actually, average doesn’t mean a whole lot to me OR ANYONE ELSE WHO KNOWS A DAMN THING ABOUT BASEBALL. I would take an entire team of guys with .000 averages and 1.000 OBP any day of the week, and my team would go 130-32, if Jason Marquis started 32 games.

    Look, I’m sick of arguing with you, since you don’t really listen to anything, you have the baseball intellect of either a 6-year-old girl or an 85-year-old shut-in, and you don’t respond to or try to refute my arguments. I could get the same satisfaction out of arguing with a brick wall. You’re like a mindless parrot, shouting “200 hits!” “stolen bases” over and over again. If you want to cherry pick the ONE statistic (stolen bases) that Pierre has better numbers for, so be it. But the numbers support my argument that the Cubs CF revolving door has been better than Pierre this year. Oh, and go read Moneyball. Statistically, stolen bases are almost completely useless. You know who else is in love with the stolen base? Joe Morgan and Dusty Baker. I’ll stay on Bill James’ side, you stay on those imbeciles’ side, and we’ll see who comes out ahead at the end.

    Not to blow your mind with yet another reason your argument makes about as much sense as a Joe Morgan broadcast, defensively Pagan, Jock, and Pie are all far better in CF than Pierre. Far better. But I’m sure you’ll have some way to defend that rag-arm 12-year-old for that, too. Say hi to Pierre for me when you see him. Let him know he should be ashamed of himself for spending a dime of the money the Cubs gave him to suck in center field. And, seriously, I think you’d be better off reading Bleed Cubbie Blue, where you might find one misguided soul like you who actually thinks Juan Pierre was more valuable than the sweat band on Derrek Lee’s hat.

  • Fro Dog

    A-Ram Baller…Shut the hell up. You will never win this argument. Juan Pierre SUCKED for the Cubs. You get it? He SUCKED! All 200 of those hits came in July, August and September when they didn’t even MATTER.

  • Jake

    Yeah the guy had 204 hits last season. He also had 699 at bats, more than anyone else in the league. If you took every guy that had at least 400 at bats last season and figure how many hits they’d have in 699 at bats given their 2006 AVG, JP’s 204 hits would rank 69th in the league. Hell Matt Murton would have 207 hits last season.

    Juan Pierre hardly walks. True he hardly strikes out either. What he does do…..a lot, is ground out. Last year he led the majors in ground outs with 280. Second on that list was Luis Castillo with 237. He had 43 more than the guy in second! Hell he’s already got a commanding lead on the pack this season with 196, 34 more than second place Castillo.

  • A-Ram Baller

    You are missing the point guys. I am not saying that JP is the best CF ever, I am saying that I think that the team could use him right now. Think about it. JP gets on 200+ times in a season maybe steals a couple bases and you have Soriano hitting behind him, those are RBI chances that we don’t have with the Jock/Pie/Pagan/misc. douchebag option in CF now. That all I am saying. You want to harp on JP because his OPS or his SLG aren’t high but you don’t expect that from him. You hope that he gets on steals a base and gets driven in. That is all I am saying. When you lose a lot of one run games I would rather have a guy in JP who will put the ball in play then Jock who is totally useless.

  • Bad Kermit Post author

    And all I’m saying is that you’re completely wrong for thinking that Pierre would help this team more than Jock. I hate Jock, but he has a .455/.478/.636/1.114 line in the past week.

    In the 2nd half, Jock is .333/.396/.432/.828.

    In the 2nd half, Unlucky Pierre is .263/.324/.313/.637.

    I’d take Jones any day of the week, and it’s not even close.

  • Dad of Mondesi

    Oh, this was nice to read. Fast forward to August 2008, Juan Pierre is being eased out of his major league career. Luckily, he’ll have his pillow full of money to cry into for the next three years. Once Coletti is fired, Juan will be DFA’ed and smart Dodger/Cub(/Marlin?) fans everywhere will smile at the next dumb team to sign him. Good times. Always remember this, though: Andre Ethier never steals any bases and he doesn’t get 200 hits a year. Repeat.

  • Derrick

    Great page BK….I cannot believe someone wanted to argue how good Pierre was for 2 entire months. I’d also like to add that since the day that the Cubs signed Todd Hundley, I’ve been calling him a worthless piece of crap. His one claim to fame – he has an uncanny resemblance to Joaquin Phoenix.

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